Topics: Career path, professor, university career, academic position, lawyer, advocate, human rights, women's and children's rights, studies, University of Bern.
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Good afternoon Mrs. Wyttenbach, we are pleased that you, as a professor at the University of Bern, have taken the time for this interview. Your career could have led you to entirely different fields. Could you describe your educational path to becoming an advocate?
My entry into the academic world after graduating from high school was not so straightforward. I initially studied History and Philosophy at the University of Basel. In my third year, I spent a semester abroad at the University of Bern. There, I attended intersectional courses between History, Philosophy, and Law – and realized that I actually preferred Law.
So, I changed my course of study. My parents did not think it was a good idea. "Law? Way too dry," they said. To some extent, they were right, but I found Law fascinating with its exciting foundations, abstraction, possibilities for design, and its role in society. I liked systematic legal thinking, the way one learns to decrypt and solve problems. I was also highly interested in issues of justice and thought that Law could be a tool that could be used. - I did my internships at the Administrative Court of Bern and the Federal Office of Equality. Afterward, I spent a year in a lawyer's internship with a female advocate and notary in Bern, specializing in family law and victim representation among other things. I learned a lot during these internships: how to approach legal problems and where the potential and boundaries of legal design possibilities lie. Subsequently, I passed the Bernese advocate's examination (nowadays, the lawyer's examination).
... Law fascinated me, with its exciting foundations, abstraction, design possibilities, and its role in society. - Prof. Dr. Judith Wyttenbach
How did it come about that you wanted to become a professor of constitutional and international law?
This came about gradually, I didn't have this in mind at all during my studies or while training as a lawyer. During my studies, I wanted to become a lawyer. The internships in the law firm, at the federal government, and at the administrative court showed me a bit of all the possibilities. While I was studying for the state exam, I wasn't so sure about the direction to go anymore. At that time, public law was heavily tested in the state exam: a long written exam, three oral exams, plus tax law, which is also public law. So, I had to put a lot of effort into it. I fell in love with public law as I was getting to know it intensively. I wanted to delve into this and then wrote a dissertation under the supervision of Walter Kälin.
I have very fond memories of my time as an assistant at the university. It was a stimulating environment with very different people. Besides, I was active in various associations, for example at Infra Bern, which among other things offers legal advice for women. When I finished my thesis, I already had a child running around at home and I was once again a little uncertain: should I go to the federal government, for example to the Federal Justice Office, to the Directorate of International Law or to the Equality Office, or should I continue? In the end, I decided to habilitate, funded by teaching assignments, legal opinions, and a grant from the National Fund at first, later as an assistant professor without tenure track. In 2013, I applied for the position I have today in Bern.
You are interested in human rights, especially women's and children's rights. What was your motivation and is there a case that particularly sticks in your memory?
Yes, basic and human rights issues have always greatly interested me, as well as others, such as federalism and state organization in general, as well as public procedural law. An example that particularly stands out to me: When I somewhat accidentally began in 2002 to deal with so-called educational violence against children and the role of the state in this context, it immediately concerned me on a legal policy level: it is clear to me that the legal system must not accept educational violence from a constitutional and human rights perspective. I have the same feeling when I think of the legal situation of non-binary people. This presumption of society, the legal invisibility, and the prison of the assignment of a binary official gender with all associated disadvantages and restrictions on freedom - urgent work on a change is needed. But other legal questions that I deal with are equally interesting to me, for example in the area of public procedural law.
This presumption of society, the legal invisibility, and the confinement of assigning a binary official gender with all the associated disadvantages and restrictions of freedom - it is urgent to work on a change. - Prof. Dr. Judith Wyttenbach
What do you particularly appreciate about your activity as a professor at the University of Bern?
The work at the university is very diverse. We teach students and in professional continuing education, conduct research, write books and articles, take on expert opinions, work in expert commissions and supervise master's theses and dissertations. Thematically, we are very free, we deal with questions that interest us. This is a great privilege and I appreciate it very much. What I value the most is working with the students, the doctoral candidates and colleagues on projects. I enjoy chewing on difficult questions together and brainstorming solutions, and I also learn a lot from them, from their way of thinking. Often, we have to look beyond our own limits, think interdisciplinarily, or sit down with other professionals, since the law usually regulates matters that we, as lawyers, know nothing about in terms of content.
I find it fascinating that the work can be both theoretical and practice-oriented, one has to be precise and the argumentation is at the center. Law has not only a static but also a dynamic side; the world around the law and the law itself are constantly changing, and these interactions are extremely interesting. How should we deal with the recent developments in the field of AI? Where is the potential, where are the dangers for basic rights, what are the discrimination risks? Or: How do we face climate change?
Working with students, doctoral candidates, and collaborating on projects with my colleagues are paramount for me. I like to think together about difficult questions and imagine solutions, and I also learn a lot from them, from their way of thinking. - Prof. Dr. Judith Wyttenbach
What advice would you give to students who aspire to a career at a university?
First and foremost, you should enjoy working scientifically. During your studies, you'll notice that you enjoy writing academic papers. You must love to write, to juggle with words. And your qualifications must be up to scratch, for example, a doctorate requires a certain grade point average. The Institute of Public Law regularly advertises positions, and we welcome motivated applicants. But of course, not everyone who writes a doctoral thesis does so because they aim for an academic career. The doctoral thesis is also an important professional specialization and qualification and opens the door to further professional activities. But back to the question: enjoying and being willing to write a doctoral thesis would be the first step. Then personally, I found it very enriching to contribute to expert opinions and other projects while working on my thesis and getting to know teaching. The work on the doctoral thesis is sometimes a struggle, with ups and downs, but if you have to say in the end: yes, science is just as much my world as teaching and I feel comfortable here: yes, then it could definitely continue!
A postdoc phase would then follow... however, it should be noted that from this moment on, the career can be planned in a targeted manner (for example, apply to the National Fund or apply for an assistant professorship, in addition to working in practice, accept teaching assignments, etc.), but there is no guarantee that this will result in a permanent academic position. I was always aware of this and always considered alternatives, that is to say "exit scenarios". For me, this would have been for example a position at the administrative court or at the federal government. Nowadays, however, universities are working to reduce the precariousness and uncertainty of prospects at the postdoc stage. And I think that's very important and very good.
Thank you very much for this authentic insight into the academic world and for sharing your personal experience, Ms. Wyttenbach. We wish you all the best for the future!