Topics: Law and Technology, FinTech, Blockchain, Cryptocurrencies, Smart Contracts, Technology, Artificial Intelligence, Laws of War, Legal Advisor, MME, Obligate AG.
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Good morning Mr. Meyer, as a lawyer and notary, you have specialized particularly in FinTech matters. Could you please describe your educational path and specifically explain how you became an expert in (Fin)Tech?

My passion lies in the intersection of law and technology. Particularly, I had an early interest in computer science, an area that, like law, is very logical and based on extensive decision trees. Initially, during my studies, I focused heavily on liability and insurance law, working 50% alongside my studies in a litigation team at an insurer. After completing my studies in Zurich and an LL.M. in late 2015, when I intended to pursue the classical substitution path, I came across a doctoral position at the intersection of blockchain technology and law through a job posting and immediately applied.

I delved into the subject of establishing rights concerning blockchain-based tokens like Bitcoin, how to use such tokens for value transfer, and identified legal gaps. It was a fantastic project led by Prof. Dr. Harald Bärtschi, uniting two lawyers and a computer scientist. Alongside this, in 2017, I began working in the FinTech team at  MME , initially as a research assistant, later (after obtaining my lawyer's license in the meantime) as an associate, and now as (Of-)Counsel. The young and dynamic nature of the subject also allowed me to take on various teaching assignments, such as the master's module on 'Blockchain and Smart Contracts' at the  University of Lucerne , and various CAS blocks at  ZHAW  and  HWZ.

The (luxury) problem with working at the very dynamic intersection of law and technology is that there are (too) many exciting opportunities. - Dr. Stephan D. Meyer, LL.M.

In 2019, along with three colleagues (two of whom are also lawyers), I co-founded a blockchain company,  Obligate AG , and as Co-CEO, contributed to its establishment. Currently, I am engaged as the Chief Legal Officer. We have developed a blockchain-based platform and infrastructure, now comprising about 20 individuals, enabling companies to issue electronic securities directly to qualified investors. We secured over CHF 10 million in equity financing for this endeavor, including investments from the Swiss stock exchange SIX, as well as various German and American venture capital firms. Recently, as a 'hobby,' I've also taken on a habilitation project to legally assess the training of artificial neural networks. The (luxury) problem with working at the very dynamic intersection of law and technology is that there are (too) many exciting opportunities.

Could you provide us with an insight into your typical workday and explain which aspects of your work you particularly appreciate?

As mentioned earlier, my career path has not been 'classically linear' but rather 'multidimensional.' The great aspect of this has been and continues to be that depending on the role, I'm challenged and inspired in vastly different ways. My primary role as a co-founder of  Obligate  allows me to engage in many non-legal activities. Building a company, experiencing its highs and lows, is an incredibly exciting yet challenging process – you learn an immense amount in a short period. Additionally, these experiences facilitate advising companies, especially other startups, more effectively. Given that our product is highly legally driven and operates in a heavily regulated environment, as a lawyer, I work in direct, daily collaboration with the product and development team. As one might imagine, 'it depends' isn't the only answer there; instead, we need to convert that 'it depends' into binary code through iterative processes, which is a lot of fun. At Obligate, we've created a globally unique legal-technical concept for electronic securities, of which we are proud.

In my other (currently more sporadic) engagements, particularly at MME, I focus on optimizing tokenization projects, but also on what are known as decentralized autonomous organizations. From a professional standpoint, it involves a combination of private law, especially securities law on one hand, and various financial regulatory issues on the other. Additionally, I appreciate discussing legal questions with students from time to time and having my own perspectives challenged.

(...) significant legal uncertainty persists for the vast majority of decentralized assets, starting with Bitcoin. - Dr. Stephan D. Meyer, LL.M.

Your outstanding  dissertation  focuses on the topic of blockchain, and you teach about it at various universities. What legal challenges and opportunities arise in connection with FinTech, blockchain, and cryptocurrencies?

The fascinating aspect, especially with disruptive technologies, is that suddenly one deals with entirely new and unresolved issues. Often, finding solutions is highly creative, challenging fundamental legal principles and paradigms. For example, when considering what a Bitcoin represents from a legal perspective and why an item should indeed have physical nature, one must delve into the origin and rationale of property law. Currently, worldwide, there are blockchain-based tokens worth over 1.2 trillion Swiss Francs. In Switzerland, while we've established relatively good foundations for those (few) tokens used as securities with the new provisions on registered securities, significant legal uncertainty persists for the vast majority of decentralized assets, starting with Bitcoin: there are no proprietary rights akin to ownership and possession, no good-faith acquisition. It's unclear how and based on what legal criteria such assets are transferred, and whether, for instance, a Bitcoin can be pledged.

The unclear classification under private law, more precisely, the uncertainty regarding whether absolute rights exist on a token, extends into criminal, inheritance, liability, or bankruptcy law (except for segregation, which has been legislatively regulated in the meantime). So, there is much work ahead – and many intriguing open questions for research (and the courts).

What changes are we facing due to the progress in the FinTech sector?

One of the most central aspects, in my opinion, of technological advancement is the increasing autonomy of digital systems. With blockchain technology, particularly so-called 'Smart Contracts,' we have, for the first time, been able to create programs that can fully decentralize and peer-to-peer create, control, and transfer values without individuals (or courts or a state) being able to influence them. A program on a blockchain not only executes autonomously but also enforces what has been programmed autonomously. This capability allows its use in areas where trustworthy intermediaries are currently needed.

While blockchain programs are rather rudimentary in design(...), modern artificial neural networks allow the creation of systems that can autonomously learn. Additionally, they learn in a manner that is often incomprehensible and unpredictable for the creator- Dr. Stephan D. Meyer, LL.M.

Another example of increasing autonomy lies in the rapidly advancing systems of artificial intelligence. While blockchain programs are rather rudimentary in design, as once stored, they are fundamentally unchangeable, modern artificial neural networks allow the creation of systems that can autonomously learn. Additionally, they learn in a manner that is often incomprehensible and unpredictable for the creator of such a neural network. As one might imagine, autonomy leads to diverse and often unresolved legal questions.

You are also a Legal Officer in the Swiss Army alongside your main profession. How do you utilize these experiences in your day-to-day work?

That's correct. I serve as a Major and Legal Advisor in a divisional staff. The foundation of my role is derived from the Geneva Conventions, under which all member states are required to ensure that a Legal Advisor is assigned to the commanders of large units and advises them on compliance with the laws of war. Training in military law is conducted, among other places, at the  Institute of International Humanitarian Law (IIHL)  in Sanremo, Italy, where Legal Officers from all parts of the world, including the USA, China, and (at least during my time) Russia, gather. They learn through specific use cases alongside members of the ICRC to determine – to put it concisely – what constitutes lawful and unlawful killing in war. The goal of international humanitarian law is to ensure a defined minimum level of humanity in a war, agreed upon by all parties. Central to the examination are always two elements: military necessity and proportionality (in terms of collateral damage), and their mutual assessment. Unlike a typical legal desk job, this assessment in a deployment is made under high physical pressure, with little time and often poor information, somewhere in a field, a command post, or a bunker, and perhaps with 24 or more hours without sleep. From a Swiss perspective, with few exceptions, deployments fortunately mainly consist of 'dry runs' and those in a leadership simulator. However, given the current conflicts in Ukraine and the Middle East, the topic of international humanitarian law and its application and interpretation has evidently gained significant importance.

Personally, I particularly benefit from stepping out of my comfort zone and gaining practical experience in structured, interdisciplinary decision-making processes.

Perhaps due to the strong focus on technology projects (where it's not uncommon for a client to give you a hug instead of a handshake), the culture is very free from personal airs. - Dr. Stephan D. Meyer, LL.M.

What, in your opinion, sets MME apart from other employers in the legal industry?

To spotlight a bit:  MME  is an excellent law firm and employer. Despite significant growth over the past few years, now with over 100 colleagues, it has managed to maintain a very close-knit environment. Particularly, the extraordinarily strong and broad expertise in the fintech sector is reflected in the well-known 'Legal 500' and 'Chambers and Partners' rankings, where MME regularly ranks in the top tier of Swiss law firms. Perhaps due to the strong focus on technology projects (where it's not uncommon for a client to give you a hug instead of a handshake), the culture is very free from personal airs. Those who enjoy engaging mandates and don't want to be in an environment where 'billing records' are a status symbol will feel very comfortable at MME. You'll find a motivated, ambitious, and creative team that enjoys technological innovation. And, of course, there are legendary celebrations too.

Technology evolves much faster and is more dynamic than the law. It is therefore essential to stay up-to-date and invest time accordingly. - Dr. Stephan D. Meyer, LL.M.

Closing thoughts: What advice do you have for lawyers aiming for a career in the FinTech sector?

My top three personal pieces of advice are as follows:

1. First and foremost, choose an area that you enjoy. In most cases, you excel at what you're passionate about. If you have a love for both technology and law, the FinTech sector serves as an excellent springboard for various exciting activities and challenges.
    
2. Invest at least as much time in understanding the technology and its concepts as in assessing the legal implications. Only those ambitious enough to thoroughly grasp the technology can provide optimal legal analysis in this regard. This means that if you want to delve into Blockchain and law, you should set up your own wallet and test various types of DeFi applications, or in the field of AI, create and train a rudimentary neural network.
    
3. Technology evolves much faster and is more dynamic than the law. It is therefore essential to stay up-to-date and invest time accordingly. The high dynamism is undeniably a challenge – but on the positive side, it ensures that you won't be bored.

Thank you for the helpful advice and for the insight into the FinTech world. We wish you all the best!